Mage Council Emergency Meeting!

[mythalenaste]

In the aftermath of the Abomination, Pel calls an emergency session of the Council. Those not present in Skyhold attend via Sending Crystal. The meeting is public and anyone can watch.

Her proposal is threefold:

First, a two-week anti-demon training course. Whether it's mandatory or not can be tossed back and forth by the Council in discussion.

Second, a variation on Harrowings, held in a safe location outside of Skyhold to be determined (for the safety of non-mages), with three major differences: (1) they are opt-in only, with the mage fully apprised of what the experience will be beforehand, (2) the subject has the option of being accompanied by a spirit medium for safety and education, and (3) they are called something besides Harrowings, due to the fearmongering nature of that name.

Third, mages going alone on missions will be partnered with (not escorted by) a templar, who does not oversee the mage's work but who accompanies them as a sort of bodyguard and helps them in their work. They are to be on utterly equal terms. If they're with another mage, one templar can cover more than one mage. That limit can be set at the Council's discretion, since obviously you can't have one templar with ten mages. In Skyhold, mages can go about without templars, but they can ask to be quartered with a templar if they feel like they need it to be safe. The templars being quartered with mages must have the Council's utter trust.

She concludes by beseeching the Council to work with the safety of all people in mind, whatever their background. Dalish mages will not submit to Harrowings or Templar oversight, but they still believe in this Council and don't want to lessen the fragile power it has.

It would be best to handwave as much of this meeting as possible, due to holiday schedules and time zones, so let's hash it out in the comments below.

Comments

[mythalenaste]

Closest we've got.

Pel reads the new paragraph aloud as it is now written, see the edited resolution above.

[ungovernable]

The closest they've got still isn't a Templar organisation that can be negotiated with or organised - when there is, Benevenuta will be glad, but in the meantime, she leaves it alone because her points all still stand.

Benevenuta is uncertain that at this point the Templar paragraph involves anything meaningfully worth including if they aren't offering a specific context for it, and it still feels to her as if they are including Templars to soothe ruffled feathers and now the inclusion is so vague as to be something they could safely speak of separately.

In her opinion it should be spoken of separately to avoid any ongoing implication that the Council can't stand by itself.

[mythalenaste]

The Templar paragraph is there because it is a concrete, documented instance of the mages reaching out to the Templars. The mages are allowing the Inquisition to hold them accountable to do what they say they will do, and the ball is now in the court of the Templars. Moreover, this document isn't just for mages, it's for the non-mages of Skyhold to see what is being done about the recent possession.

[ungovernable]

It is very important for those outside the mages to see how they are handling the recent possession; Benevenuta agrees. She disagrees with how this will be viewed, and they have not reached out to 'the Templars' because they logistically have no means to do so. This level of ambiguity is going to be a problem if they leave it.

She would like to propose again that they include Dorian's proposal, if they must have something for Templars, as it gives them a concrete offer to begin with and doesn't oblige mages who have questions to open with "what are we inviting Templars to do".

[mythalenaste]

Soooo you basically want the old paragraph with the word "must" crossed out and replaced with "may." Which we still don't have the authority to write down because there is no Templar order.

Please remember someone else is doing all this writing and that idea didn't originate with Dorian--not even the part where it's not mandatory. Dorian's proposal is no different from her own, it's just not mandatory and she's not sure why you're arguing to replace hers with his.

Her hand is cramping up and there is ink everywhere.

[ungovernable]

Dorian's idea is to provide a means for mages to request assistance - if that is what Pel intended to offer in the first place, Benevenuta would have liked that to be clear at the beginning to save them time, but no, she is not asking to cross out 'must' and replace with 'may'. She is suggesting that "Any mages who wish to receive the protection of volunteer former Templars can speak with the Council, who will make efforts on their behalf to arrange this" - or words to that effect - gives clarity and purpose to the document it doesn't have.

[mythalenaste]

The original proposal left logistics more or less out of it, due to it being a shit idea for one person to do an entire committee's worth of planning while writing the only fucking solution anybody from this council has yet put forth.

Pel will restore the original paragraph with more detail, if that will make the lady happy.

(Sorry she's cranky)

[ungovernable]

Unsure where the swearing came from! I feel a bit awkward, do you mind not doing that?


Anyway: the original stated mandatory participation that they don't have the authority to request or the ability to enforce, so no, Benevenuta's original points and objections to it all still stand and if Pel needs a minute to compose herself, that's fine, Benevenuta is genuinely trying to work with her on this and doesn't mind her needing to take a second. If she needs some help writing things down, she's got a lot available to her and Benevenuta is more than happy to do it - she's been taking the minutes of this meeting as well, for instance, so they will have it all in writing regardless.

As it stands in this moment, the paragraph regarding Templars doesn't appear to contain anyone's idea - Benevenuta objects to the ambiguity of it because if they aren't putting forth something specific, it doesn't look like the Council of Magi are reaching out and being the responsible ones, it just looks like they think the Templars should solve their problems for them somehow and don't want to come out and say so. Pointedly opening with a denial of Templar authority emphasises that rather than taking away from it. "We don't need you, but".

They need to have a specific proposal or they need to leave the Templars out of it. Offering to give mages an opportunity to seek their assistance through the Council would be an acceptable alternative unlikely to be shot down by anyone as it would be purely voluntary on both sides, and they can state it briefly and effectively. They don't need to point out that they deny Templar authority again, they can simply put forward what their actual offer is and leave it at that.

[mythalenaste]

The paragraph doesn't say we don't need Templars, it's denying Templar authority over mages.

Beg pardon, lady, Pel is not feeling all that sympathetic when she's been working on this resolution for weeks while the rest of the council took hot baths with scented oils and now quibbles not only with her ideas, but with the fact that she wrote an entire third of this resolution at all.

The Templars have to know from the beginning that they are not in authority. Pel will not leave room for them to believe otherwise, especially not after today, when it is clear the Templars want to have that authority and will take any ground they can gain by shouting and bullying. She has edited the paragraph to include Dorian's proposal, but she will not strike the lines denying Templar authority.

[ungovernable]

I feel sort of uncomfortable with how this is going out OOCly at this point because it's hard to tell whether you OOCly believe that no one else's character is doing any work. I'm trying to hash out their discussion and it feels like I'm being pushed into sideways RPing a personal attack when my character is trying to do her job responsibly alongside Pel.

[mythalenaste]

Oh honey no this is all IC, sorry. Pel is just kind of an inverted snob, I'll tone it down.

Basically after this bickering, Pel is starting to feel tired and defensive and like she's the only person who had anything to bring forward, and she's judging Benny a bit because Benny is a lovely person who is well-kempt and people like that intimidate her like hell.

So no, definitely not accusing anyone of anything OOCly. I'll make sure to leave the ICness out for the rest of the conversation, if you're okay with continuing. Sorry!

[ungovernable]

I'd like to continue! It definitely felt odd because Benevenuta hasn't contributed to bickering, is trying to be practical and productive and given that the abomination attack was a week ago and this post is backdated, they're basically all responding as quickly as is actually possible. There weren't actually any long weeks of nobody responding, and people in this post are bringing forth ideas and working on it.

So, maybe it would be helpful if Benevenuta pointed out gently that what they are doing right now is working on it, all of them together, and it's not her sole responsibility. Again, if she needs a minute to compose herself, it's cool, tempers are running hot and everyone is stressed.

What Benevenuta will explain is that it's an established fact that the Templars do not currently have an organisation. They can shout and bully, but the Council of Magi is not obligated to them in any way and they are in a much better position if they don't let themselves be forced to engage that way - if they emphasise the authority of the Inquisition to whom everyone is answerable, and they have a specific, clear-cut proposal, they have much more credibility. If they keep repeating 'Templars have no authority here' it is going to weaken their position because people will see that the Council of Magi feels it has to do that, that its own authority cannot stand or depends on yelling at Templars.

tl;dr she's been doing this politics game for a while, work with her. Though if she loses this battle, she'll do so graciously; the bulk of what she took issue with has been resolved, and they're now onto what's essentially PR. It matters, but she won't throw a tantrum if she can't make Pel understand why.

[mythalenaste]

Pel was actually working on this since the day after their first meeting, which is why she's frustrated.

But this gets her to cool her jets a bit. She understands what Benny is saying about coming from a position of strength meaning they don't have to stamp their feet and repeat themselves. She spins her quill for a bit, then starts scratching things out. Then she slides the paragraph to Benevenuta to review (see above).

[ungovernable]

Benny would definitely have been interested in hearing about it earlier - if Pel has other projects she would like a PR politico opinion on Benny is easy to find.

And she is very pleased with the rewrite. If they high fived in Thedas there'd be a high five.

[mythalenaste]

Awwwww okay, that gets a reluctant, quiet grin. And Pel will definitely start running some things by Benny.

[ungovernable]

eeeexcellent /steeples fingers

[madame_de_fer]

Quick chime in here that Vivienne would be in agreement with this approach with the Templars. (See also her above commentary that Templars need to remember their duty and not be so uppity.) Basically she'd remind everyone in the room that they are their own masters, and always have been, and people grabbing more power than was their due is what caused these problems in the first place. Let's not hand them more authority than they deserve (or had in the first place... then snatch it away). And until they get their house in order, that needs to be minimized.

Also any Templar breathing sounds that mages are not people are to be banned from their young students. She won't have the children abused by such people. But that's something to be discussed with whomever the Templars put forward as their spokesperson.

(Also a side note that I'm fighting a migraine and might have missed something in the discussion, and if that's the case, just ignore me.)

[ungovernable]

Vivienne and Benevenuta are on the same page here, for sure! They need to be coming from a strong position in order to achieve anything credible, which means they need to stop framing their position in reaction or relation to Templars, as far as Benevenuta is concerned.

(You are doing amazing for fighting a migraine.)